document locking issue

[angusbeare]

Hi

I have been investigating Alfresco team for our company to use primarily as a document management system.

The issue that we have is that while a document is locked a user can download the version that is locked and then after the user that is working on the document has uploaded the new version the user that downloaded it can upload it over the top without getting the latest version.

So, we need to disallow download while a document is locked and we need to dissallow upload a new version until the user has got the latest version.
Otherwise this system is no good to us.

Is there any way we can achieve this?

thanks
Gus

[loftux]

You probably can, with permissions, and maybe som custom rules. Your scenario however, is not very clear. This is how I interpret it
UserB checkout doc-v1
UserA downloads doc-v1-original
UserB updates doc-v1-workingcopy
UserB CheckIn doc-v1-workingcopy and it becomes doc-v2.
UserA uploads doc-v1 and overwrites doc-v2 (and it becomse doc-v3)

This scenario is can only occur if UserA is allowed to update "doc" in the first place. So just make sure you don't allow UserA to checkout/update.
What you are suggesting is that UserA should not be able to read a document while it is checked out. That sort of defeats document management practice to me, you should be able to read that SOP while the new is in progress. If someone adds a new version breaking document management procedures, it would be hard for any system to prevent, not just Alfresco.

[angusbeare]

You probably can, with permissions, and maybe som custom rules. Your scenario however, is not very clear. This is how I interpret it
UserB checkout doc-v1
UserA downloads doc-v1-original
UserB updates doc-v1-workingcopy
UserB CheckIn doc-v1-workingcopy and it becomes doc-v2.
UserA uploads doc-v1 and overwrites doc-v2 (and it becomse doc-v3)

This scenario is can only occur if UserA is allowed to update "doc" in the first place. So just make sure you don't allow UserA to checkout/update.
What you are suggesting is that UserA should not be able to read a document while it is checked out. That sort of defeats document management practice to me, you should be able to read that SOP while the new is in progress. If someone adds a new version breaking document management procedures, it would be hard for any system to prevent, not just Alfresco.

Hi Loftux

thanks for the reply. You are correct in your understanding of the situation. However, we do not wish to prevent UserA from being able to read the document while it is being checked out. The idea of not allowing download was just an idea as to how the situation might be prevented.

Ideally, the system would allow UserA to view or download while the document is locked and then prevent him from uploading a new version until UserB has checked in and UserA has downloaded the new version.

In my mind it needs to work like Visual Sourcesafe. All users can view all data whether checked out or not. Checked out files can only be modified by the person who has checked them out. Until a file is checked back in nobody else can modify it.  I guess this is leading us back in the direction of using some kind of version control instead. Perhaps none of the web based DMS systems are suitable for our needs after all.

In the meantime, with Alfresco, how do we prevent UserA from updating the file until he has got the latest version?

thanks
Gus

[loftux]

This is how it works in Alfresco. When you check out, the original document is locked and cannot be edited, but can still be viewed  and downloaded.
The working copy is a separate object, and the only one that can update this file is the person who checked this out. When this document is checked in, it becomes the new version.

So UserA cannot upload anything before the lock has been removed. If UserA after that updates the document, by doing a checkout and upload an older version, that scenario I mean is breaking operating procedures. It would still be visible, as it creates a new version, an you can revert that checkin.

I advice you not to try to use source control systems for document management. You will loose a lot, like custom metadata, indexing, workflow.

[angusbeare]

This is how it works in Alfresco. When you check out, the original document is locked and cannot be edited, but can still be viewed  and downloaded.
The working copy is a separate object, and the only one that can update this file is the person who checked this out. When this document is checked in, it becomes the new version.

So UserA cannot upload anything before the lock has been removed. If UserA after that updates the document, by doing a checkout and upload an older version, that scenario I mean is breaking operating procedures. It would still be visible, as it creates a new version, an you can revert that checkin.

I advice you not to try to use source control systems for document management. You will loose a lot, like custom metadata, indexing, workflow.

thanks Loftux

It is too easy to break the rules by mistake. There is no warning to UserA when he uploads a new version that the document was updated since he last looked at it. He is not forced to check out before upload. "Upload new version" is available regardless. Is there any way of warning him that he needs to get the latest version or of preventing him uploading until he has checked out the latest version? 

Gus

[loftux]

Since the downloaded document is detached from the system, there will be no way of keeping track that a user has downloaded a document and for what purpose, is it for viewing or later uploading a new version.

What you can do is remove the menu option "upload new version", in that way you remove the option to upload new stuff without locking the document first. The "edit offline" menu option both locks the doc, and triggers a download of the latest version
If you keep that menu, it will still create a new version, and you can se who did the update.

[angusbeare]

Since the downloaded document is detached from the system, there will be no way of keeping track that a user has downloaded a document and for what purpose, is it for viewing or later uploading a new version.

What you can do is remove the menu option "upload new version", in that way you remove the option to upload new stuff without locking the document first. The "edit offline" menu option both locks the doc, and triggers a download of the latest version
If you keep that menu, it will still create a new version, and you can se who did the update.

that might do the trick, how do I remove that option?  Or better, make it visible only to the person who has the document checked out.

[loftux]

http://www.google.com/search?q=site:forums.alfresco.com+share+menu

One of those topics will give you an explanation