topic Re: Use Share RM instead of DM ? in Alfresco Archive

Use Share RM instead of DM ?

dranakan — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 08:09:46 GMT

Hello,I wonder if it could be better to use Share RM…Actually, I use Alfresco DM to store PDF (invoice, salary, …). One application (an ERP) uses Alfresco to access these PDF. This application uses Webscripts to get PDF or to change metadata on it. There is also some actions to extract data from som

Re: Use Share RM instead of DM ?

fpp — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 11:55:01 GMT

While there is currently only limited material reg. Alfresco's DoD RM module available and I've not seen anything so far reg. migrating from DM to RM maybe you would potentially have a better starting point with answering the following questions:

Are your requirements for document storage and management driven by certain compliance rules in the industry - you mentioned the accounting checks?

Are there full life-cycle definitions for the documents / PDFs you're planning to store there (e.g. workflows, redemption time, archiving requirements etc)?

Will this store only be used by the automatic storage jobs from your ERP or are you planning that users might also add content manually?

Some of the constraints to keep in consideration when using the current version of RM in Alfresco :

You can only have one root / fileplan within your RM and the depth of levels below is limited to 3 (FilePlan -> Series / Folders / Records ) - DM provides more flexibility here and users can change that vs. a formal plan in RM.

Certain features seem to have only limited availability in the current 3.2r2 community edition (e.g. use of supplemental markings / deleting custom meta data / Record-ID composition etc) - could not check this in the EE so far.

Also keep in mind that the RM implementation is an extension created on top of the Share DM - document library. If you're looking for better monitoring / auditing features you might want to have a look how these are implemented within the RM extension and potentially mimic those as a custom component / extension for your project. Additionally you might be getting quite some "noise" in your audit logs as - per your description - your ERP is changing the PDF files (once / multiple / often ???) in your repository. With RM this would mean that for every access the record would have to be un-filed and re-filed afterward as a new record (??? new Record ID - this might be a requirement) - versioning and creating a report e.g. based on the audit etc features in RM might already do the job.

Generally speaking whatever you can do in the RM module can also be done in the DM document library (with some extensions). Key determining factors will be - as mentioned above - compliance or formal record keeping requirements otherwise and the more detailed requirements for your project. You might also want to look at a staging approach - keep the documents in the DM library while these are changed and file them as records e.g. after certain event / time / completion of action etc.

How to get the data over (bulk loading / scripts) if changing to RM will like your decision pro / against RM depend on more detailed requirements with regards to your document repository and use.

fpp
( a quick shot based on your description)

Re: Use Share RM instead of DM ?

carlos_miguens — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 09:25:32 GMT

By and large I agree with fpp, however don't underestimate the effort required to "back-port" the functionality to a DM site, I think that this is non trivial, RM works in a holistic way and all the various parts are designed to work together; security, auditing, fileplan access, etc.

You may find it easier to migrate to an RM site and extend that with anything which is missing for you.

With regard to the ERP application you would not need to undeclare the records in order to update the metadata, We have allowed for this, you would create a new role (e.g. SAP Application) which would have the appropriate capabilities. The one required to update metadata is "Edit Declared Record Metadata". The audit trail can be enabled to capture the meta-data changes so you can still ensure compliance.

Good luck.
Carlos

Re: Use Share RM instead of DM ?

fpp — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 10:20:11 GMT

Many thanks Carlos for the info on updating records without a new ID. Will come handy in our current project.

And I can't agree more on porting stuff from the RM back into the DM - it's not trivial but once you know how to do it it works pretty well.

fpp

Re: Use Share RM instead of DM ?

dranakan — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 13:16:19 GMT

Thank you Fpp and Carlos.

I understand that it is possible to migrate what I have done in DM to RM.
It could be interessant to use RM for security, auditing, fileplan access…

My goal is to offer to my customers a way to delete the "sheets". They scan invoices and put them it in a trash.

For the moment I am not sure if it is possible (legal) and I recommend the customers to keep all the invoices.
I have to search in the rule (in Switzerland for me) the requirements to use only digital documents… I think that the RM is one of the requirements…

Fpp,

Are your requirements for document storage and management driven by certain compliance rules in the industry - you mentioned the accounting checks?

Yes.

Are there full life-cycle definitions for the documents / PDFs you're planning to store there (e.g. workflows, redemption time, archiving requirements etc)?

I don't know at this time but I think yes.

Will this store only be used by the automatic storage jobs from your ERP or are you planning that users might also add content manually?

There are some automatics jobs working when a new files is added.

Re: Use Share RM instead of DM ?

fpp — Sat, 09 Jan 2010 16:41:47 GMT

Would be interesting to hear if the destruction of physical docs is ok in CH if you have electronic ones. You might need to sign them or make them otherwise tamper-proof.

In general a more likely scenario might be that they put them into an off-site warehouse for the legal redemption period and work with the electronic records. I've seen that the first time with a large (Re)-insurance in Germany more than 10 years ago (they had all their letters, docs etc scanned and forwarded to their desktop instead of the physical paper). There is the possibility to refer to the physical record e.g. via the serial no used in the warehouse and you could then e.g. link this non electronic record to your electronic copy / record or just add this reference as meta-data.

As your requirements are driven by certain compliance rules your customer might feel more comfortable (as you mentioned) with a certified RM solution than with a DM solution that can more easily be changed by users (and hence might then not comply with the regulations anymore). And most likely some more of your requirements could then be used "out-of-the-box" e.g. auditing etc.

fpp

Re: Use Share RM instead of DM ?

dranakan — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 10:23:41 GMT

Thank you Fpp.

Does anyone integrate an Alfresco Solution in Switzerland deleting all physical paper ?
Does anyone can advice how to process ?

Thanks

Re: Use Share RM instead of DM ?

dranakan — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 10:16:22 GMT

Hello,

It is very interessant to have logs about files access. I want to use the RM.

Are there a "Guide" to use Record Management ? I found nothing…

My goal is to reuse that I have done (some actions adding files (define type, metadata with specific model), some webscripts able to change metadata of a file, …). If a copy files (PDF) in the directory : "Company Home > Sites > rm > documentLibrary > test" files get not all RM options… I think it is more complicated to import files 😞

How can I process the migration ?

Thanks

Re: Use Share RM instead of DM ?

mikeh — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 11:31:00 GMT

Are there a "Guide" to use Record Management ? I found nothing…

Did you try the "Help" link within Share?

Thanks,
Mike

Re: Use Share RM instead of DM ?

dranakan — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 12:21:29 GMT

Did you try the "Help" link within Share?

Thank you MikeH. Yes I had a look inside the Help from Share. I am looking help for integrate the RM with an ERP (like SAP) and a developer guide or samples would be useful for me. (like the the guide from Jeff Potts).

Thanks

Re: Use Share RM instead of DM ?

carlos_miguens — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:24:49 GMT

I don't know the law in CH, but I can tell you what happens in the UK and certainly most countries are heading this way if not already there.

Here the authorities will accept digital invoices that have been scanned and you can destroy the paper. However you do need to store them in a system which must comply with Legal Admissibility and Evidential Weight of Information Stored Electronically (what a mouthful), but there is a standard which defines what this is. An RM system certainly helps, but is not the only requirement, for example you also need to have processes in place which guaranetee that the scan has been successful and not tampered with.

If you think about the fact that actually most invoices (if not all invoices) are produced electronically and more and more are being delivered in electronic form (typically PDF) then there actually isn't any paper to produce in front of a court - unless you print it yourself. So the trend is moving towards removing the paper from the cycle and making sure that the electronic medium is secure.

Re: Use Share RM instead of DM ?

dranakan — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:16:15 GMT

Hello,

Here recommandations about lawful order in Switzerland and standards : http://forums.alfresco.com/en/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=20204&p=82337#p82337

Two important points :

1) All access files should be records. RM do it.
2) The integrity must be respected, but I don't how to do that with Alfresco. I think I need to add a process to get a "digital signature" and store it.

Alfresco RM can is able to manage the "digital signature" :?:

(I have found this : http://www.cediti.be/en/solutions/content-management/the-digital-signature, but this is with a card and I don't think that is what we need…)

Thanks

Re: Use Share RM instead of DM ?

carlos_miguens — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 16:39:43 GMT

Depends what you mean by "manage" digital signatures. You can simply use Adobe Acrobat Professional to sign documents electronically and then store the documents inside Alfresco. In this case Alfresco gives you security and auditing whereas Acrobat gives you the electronic signature functionality you need like signature verification, checks to see if the document has changed since signature, etc.

Re: Use Share RM instead of DM ?

dranakan — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 10:31:50 GMT

Thanks Carlos.
Sorry, it's perhaps better to speak about managing hash (get a fingerprint) instead of digital signatures.

On French forum, someone redirects me to this product : http://www.caringo.com (there is an integration for Alfresco : http://forge.alfresco.com/projects/alfresco2castor/)

This is the Guaranteed data integrity that I would like to get with Alfresco.
http://www.caringo.com/products_castor.html#4

Is it required to use an external tool to ensure the integrity ?

Thanks

Re: Use Share RM instead of DM ?

carlos_miguens — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 15:33:26 GMT

OK, so this is altogether a different thing to electronic signatures.

This type of product protects the content at source, in this case in the file system area where Alfresco keeps its files. This is not directly available to users anyway, only to administrators who have access to the server or storage device. So what this gives is an added capability on the storage side to prevent the content being tampered with behind the scenes without detection, usually through some type of encryption or hashing algorithm.

I don't know this particular product, but if this is what you need I'm sure it will do the job for you.

Re: Use Share RM instead of DM ?

dranakan — Mon, 26 Apr 2010 08:52:25 GMT

Thank you Carlos.

I think using RM have good benefice with the law. The certification is always a good point to ensure the quality of the storage system.

I have tried the new rm (in the Alfresco 3.3) but I don't know for the moment how and where using the RM.

This is an sample of the utilization of a GED system :

1 User add a barcode on the paper, scan this document and it is added in Alfresco (PDF file). The barcode on the paper indicates the type of the document (custom model).
2 User starts an external application (like SAP), and, by Webscript, changes the metadata.
3 Alfresco stores the document in another directory (automaticly stores files in a common structured hierarchy)
4 Eventually the document could be deleted or modified.

Where is it recommended to use RM in this case :?: During the point 3 :?:
I think I need to change all my codes (webscripts to add metadata, codes Java to create document with a specific type or code to organisze files in the , …). RM could be used in backgroud( when I move file in the RM site : it adds automaticly all it needs to store a new record) :?:
I have try to to this, but I think, in this version 3.3, I need to modify all codes…

Thanks

Re: Use Share RM instead of DM ?

carlos_miguens — Tue, 11 May 2010 07:09:41 GMT

If you already have this in Alfresco I would suggest not addining in RM as it will need you to change your code.

If you have not yet developed a solution you could use RM to tackel steps 3 and 4. But you will still need to add custom code to do this.