topic Re: Alfresco RIA Clients in Alfresco Archive

Alfresco RIA Clients

jpfi — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:27:02 GMT

hi Guys,I'd like to take the launch of docasu (http://code.optaros.com/trac/docasu/) to start a discussion about Alfresco and RIA clients.I think the first RIA was opsoro (http://opsoro.org & http://wiki.alfresco.com/wiki/Opsoro).The next was Steve Reiner's FlexSpaces (http://www.integratedseman

Re: Alfresco RIA Clients

fselendic — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:59:55 GMT

Well, lets not forget about YAAC (yet another Alfresco client ), Slingshot that Alfresco is developing.

Well, actually, the more, the merrier.
I don't like Flex, so thats one I'll pass. Daniel and Denis are really kick ass programmers, and from what Daniel has told me about their client, they are closest to my ideal, from UI look to architecture. Just don't know if they'll ever go open source, will check that.

Optaros was proof of concept, don't think it went much further than that.
Will try Docasu, looks good.
Can't figure direction Slingshot is taking Alfresco, except it is not direction I need for now

All in all, after not having usable RIA interface for years, I actually think that several approaches are good in this phase. little competition has never done any harm.

Re: Alfresco RIA Clients

jpfi — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:23:35 GMT

hi,
yub, Daniel & Denis take another approach then opsoro and docasu. They don't use plain webscripts, instead of they built their own (nice) framework around webScripts to be more flexbile around actions, roles and configuration.
Ok, form my point of view slingshot isn't comparable with the mentioned RIAs. It has another another goal. It is no more a DMS client it is more collaboaration portal with blogs, wikis, doclibs (the dms part)…like MOSS.
Well, several approaches are always good, because the make things better, but on the other hand there raises the question why don't join forces?
At the End, the customer likes to have a proofed client and not different Proof of Concepts or prototypes.
It is the same thing with java web framework or CMS. There are nearly more web frameworks or CMS than people who care about it.
Cheers,
Jan

Re: Alfresco RIA Clients

fselendic — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:11:44 GMT

Yep, Slingshot has abandoned DM path, which I find weird. Unfortunately CIFS access still has problems with Alfresco, so we are kind of stuck with old Alfresco web client.

Took a look at Docasu, getting "Failed to load Data Model" error, did you have any luck with it?

Re: Alfresco RIA Clients

jpfi — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:20:41 GMT

hi,
yab, I've installed it successfully. Simply installed the amp.
Cheers, Jan

Re: Alfresco RIA Clients

stevereiner — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:06:34 GMT

fselendic,

Even if you don't want to use Flex for development, FlexSpaces+AIR makes a good CIFS substitute with its support for drag / drop into the repository from the desktop. (Cifs doesn't work for me and others after install of vista sp1. So, for example I use FlexSpaces+AIR to drag multiple webscript files into the Data Dictionary / Web Script Extensions area since it takes less steps than using the web client)

(Personally I find flex to be great, productive platform: mxml to do declarative layout, and actionscript that makes javascript more object oriented, more java like.)

Steve

Re: Alfresco RIA Clients

dhalupa — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:46:21 GMT

hi,
imo such "large" number of different clients in development is only a proof that Alfresco made a great development platform. It fits equally good for lightweight clients like Opsoro or Docasu and for server side framework like Alfext. However goals of these development efforts are not the same, while Opsoro and Docasu are focusing on improving user experience during repository browsing, the goal of Alfext, I have to say rather ambitious one, is to enable incremental development process while developing complex enterprise applications using Alfresco platform and ExtJs as a view.
Anyone developing anything more than trivial applications which involve fair amount of JavaScript client side development knows that it can be a quite challenging task to manage, especially if you are working in a team. It takes a lot of development discipline and a lot of conventions not to get lost. What we are trying to achieve with AlfExt is to enable development using reusable components which are configured using Alfresco configuration. This is the same concept found in Alfresco JSF application, the difference is that it is not html which gets produced on the server side, but rather JavaScript.

AlfExt itself will be open sourced eventually, but we can not define the date, yet.. There are so many things to do and so little time

Best regards,

Denis

Re: Alfresco RIA Clients

fselendic — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:50:06 GMT

fselendic,

Even if you don't want to use Flex for development, FlexSpaces+AIR makes a good CIFS substitute with its support for drag / drop into the repository from the desktop. (Cifs doesn't work for me and others after install of vista sp1. So, for example I use FlexSpaces+AIR to drag multiple webscript files into the Data Dictionary / Web Script Extensions area since it takes less steps than using the web client)

(Personally I find flex to be great, productive platform: mxml to do declarative layout, and actionscript that makes javascript more object oriented, more java like.)

Steve

Fair enough, forgot about that

Re: Alfresco RIA Clients

fselendic — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:13:52 GMT

Hi Denis,

It is hard not to notice (for us that had a chance to see some of your work) that first visible effect of your framework is improving user experience during repository browsing

And, sooner or later, anyone doing anything even slightly serious with Alfresco, will be in need of some kind of framework like AlfExt. So I find your approach a better way of addressing this particular problem.

Also, having in mind ambitious nature of your project, and benefits it could bring, jpfi is right; joining at least some forces would be great. Of course, after you guys find sustainable business model for financing such amount of work

Speaking of AlfExt, any plans for i18n and L10n? Or is that already addressed?

Re: Alfresco RIA Clients

louise — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:37:28 GMT

So, AlfExt… or ExtAlf (http://louise.bujj.be/poet/?p=753) what is localized and nice…

Re: Alfresco RIA Clients

dhalupa — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:46:15 GMT

Hi Denis,
It is hard not to notice (for us that had a chance to see some of your work) that first visible effect of your framework is improving user experience during repository browsing

Well, yes, you're right Sometimes, I tend to over complicate my sentences

Speaking of AlfExt, any plans for i18n and L10n? Or is that already addressed?

AlfExt is reusing Alfresco message bundles, therefore all dictionary related messages (doc types, tasks, properties, assocs..) are already localized. Localizing the rest of the messages found on the UI is pretty straight forward since these are all contained within server side message bundles.

Re: Alfresco RIA Clients

jpfi — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:45:42 GMT

Hi,
just to clarify. ExtAlf != AlfExt, right!
So, we have 4 ExtJS-Alfrtesco combinations:
- ExtAlf (http://louise.bujj.be/poet/?p=728)
- AlfExt (http://icodix.com/products.php#alfext)
- opsoro (http://opsoro.org)
- docasu (http://code.optaros.com/trac/docasu/)
and in addition ADW (Alfresco Dynamic Website from Uzi & Co. http://wiki.alfresco.com/wiki/Alfresco_Dynamic_Website) and of course Flex Spaces.
hmm…

Re: Alfresco RIA Clients

zaizi — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:39:59 GMT

Apple's new MobileMe web applications were built on a powerful java script framework called SproutCore (http://www.sproutcore.com/). It would make it another great framework for another RIA client.

Re: Alfresco RIA Clients

daniel_gradecak — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:03:05 GMT

well, as Denis said AlfExt is a complete server side framework and is also adding some new features to Alfresco services. My opinion is that Alfext is not even comparable to the other solutions, ok maybe the UI is similar but when it comes to development there is no possible comparison. I am not preaching for my own church here

Jan, joining our forces would be nice you know that

Re: Alfresco RIA Clients

fselendic — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:17:53 GMT

Hi Daniel :wink:

I wasn't saying that AlfExt is just like all the other solutions, I was more in the line that, besides having different and much more ambitious goal (and much much much thoughtful architecture), it also sports arguably the best UI of them all, even in this phase of development.

Now is actually a great time to have some kind of simpler/modern UI solution for Alfresco for enterprises, with Alfresco team obviously going (to me not very understandable) collaboration way.

However, your project still has an unfortunately low visibility, unlike Docasu that comes from bigger company, and was announced through regular channels, like next world wonder

Jan is mostly right (although he is partially to blame for this situation, with starting Opsoro and leaving it in prototype phase ), there are too many efforts under way now, and some kind of joining forces would be very nice. But, without greatly improving presence and visibility of AlfExt, guys from Optaros with Docasu will steal your thunder.

So, I'm waiting for some kind of official announcement, besides just writing about it on forums

Re: Alfresco RIA Clients

daniel_gradecak — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:25:16 GMT

So, I'm waiting for some kind of official announcement, besides just writing about it on forums

Filip, just to notice that we did not started this thread and thus we did not make any announcement. Btw, for your information this project is not just in a development phase but it is running at some places and we do have a release of it. It is true that some new features are in development and that we are refactoring the code but that is a normal product lifecycle I guess. But please do not say it is a prototype …

Right now there is no open source license for AlfExt and cannot tell you when there will be one, but for sure the complete UI will not be opensource or at least free of any charge for enterprise users. If you are interested in testing it and seeing a demo as indicating on our site you are free to contact us and we will be glad to schedule a demo for you or anybody else.

Later on we will do some marketing but we do not have the time for that and we are going to show some new cool stuff in October at the Alfresco conference in Munich (actually that is a wish), after that some marketing will start and probably in Q1 2009.

Kind regards,
Daniel

Re: Alfresco RIA Clients

stevereiner — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 04:54:55 GMT

On my blog, I added some screenshots of the (opsoro inspired) support for tagging and categorization that will be in next release of FlexSpaces (0.5). (Tag Cloud, Category Tree, Tag/Categories dialog to view/edit)

http://integratedsemantics.org/2008/07/16/tagging-in-flexspaces-05/

Although FlexSpaces has many features and more coming, its xml config files for the main menu and context menus, added in 0.4, can be used to "streamline" things. Will be working to have more xml configuration capability (role based, type based, grid columns, properties, etc.)

http://forge.alfresco.com/projects/flexspaces/

All FlexSpaces UI/clientside code is in ActionScript, currently all added serverside data webscripts are javascript based (no java required, although webscripts can be in java)

Looking at adding support for spring like IOC xml configuration for the actionscript: presenter/controllers, views, components, models, cairngorm (front controller/cmds/delegates/webscript-urls)
see the prana project: http://www.herrodius.com/blog/category/prana

Steve Reiner
http://www.integratedsemantics.org
http://www.integratedsemantics.com

Re: Alfresco RIA Clients

louise — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:22:15 GMT

I've done with new ExtAlf parts with some extra features, like forum integration, document transform, and more: http://louise.hu/poet/?p=927

Re: Alfresco RIA Clients

jbarmash — Thu, 25 Dec 2008 21:46:21 GMT

Hey Guys,

With all the Alternate UIs available, I created a special Wiki category to track these and put a few starter pages in there.    Since a lot of people come to the wiki to find information about Alfresco and Extensions, I think having a listing of these will be a good thing - will help others find the great work that you are doing.
   http://wiki.alfresco.com/wiki/Category:Alternate_UIs

Feel free to also use the partner maintainced page templates if you are a partner and want to get a bit of extra credit for the cool work you did!
   http://wiki.alfresco.com/wiki/Categoryartner-Maintained_Pages

Thanks,

Jean

Re: Alfresco RIA Clients

mwildam — Tue, 19 May 2009 14:23:49 GMT

Since I started digging a little into Alresco I tested first the original client then the Share. Today I tested two other clients. But basically I still have the impression of everything being in the early stages.

The original client is IMHO far from being an efficient solution. Nobody will do so many clicks to store a content. The Alfresco Share seems nice but affects only a part of the repository and although probably tags would be sufficient for many simple use cases, their would be at least the need of tag autocompletion when using them.

Whatever client I try I find several details that are representing showstoppers for a real serious project. So I really wonder what client is used in real-world projects…