topic Re: About modeling BPMN ... (implement 'userTask'; rant) in Alfresco Archive

About modeling BPMN ... (implement 'userTask'; rant)

activiti-admin — Thu, 27 May 2010 11:20:00 GMT

Activiti Modeler does allow for modeling BPMN activities ("tasks"). However, there are subtypes of tasks, i.e., "userTask". - When will those be implemented?- As a general side note, I would like to raise concerns over BPMN's XML notation syntax.It would be desirable to model in XML rather than in a

Re: About modeling BPMN ... (implement 'userTask'; rant)

jbarrez — Thu, 27 May 2010 11:47:08 GMT

The Activiti Modeler has all the subtypes: in the right column (you need to expand it), select 'type'.

It would be desirable to model in XML rather than in a graphical editor in order to retain more control.
However, BPMN's XML schema is documented, literally, not at all. (How could such a mess have a future?)
Moreover, there is no IDE tooling support for writing BPMN source code in XML.

We are aware of the fact that some will want to write straight XML, which would require for example an Eclipse based tool. We havent currently planned anything yet, but we are looking around. The BPMN schema is documented very well, albeit not in the XSD but in the PDF available at OMG. So I would not call it a 'mess'. Note that the XSD is a BETA release, and as such isnt polished yet as you would expect from a final release. Likely the final XSD will contain docs.

- As for graphical editors, I've searched but did not find a suitable one after all. - Activiti Modeler appears to be quite "alpha", Intalio and Visual Paradigm don't allow for exporting BPMN, IBM's Systems Architect and ARIS Business Modeler are by far too expensive as well as proprietary (ARIS Express doesn't allow for exporting BPMN as well), and Eclipse's BPMN modeler produces an XML syntax that really cannot be valid BPMN. If Microsoft Visio would fit, I cannot use it as I'm on Linux. - In the end, there is no satisfactory solution at all …

BPMN 2.0 is not yet released in its final form. Moreover, some graphical XSD (not the executable one, thats stable) elements still could change. Activiti Modeler (or Signavio for that matter) is one the products that implement a beta of the spec, hence the 'unfinished feel' perhaps. When the spec goes final (next month was the last thing I heard), things will change for the best.

Re: About modeling BPMN ... (implement 'userTask'; rant)

activiti-admin — Thu, 27 May 2010 13:13:12 GMT

Thanks.

The Activiti Modeler has all the subtypes: in the right column (you need to expand it), select 'type'.

Yet I didn't find "columns" there, and not even expandable ones. - Where should one search for those?

The BPMN schema is documented very well, albeit not in the XSD but in the PDF available at OMG.

You must be joking. That document is all about concepts, but not at all about implementation. For instance, the XML element "userTask" isn't mentioned or documented, at all. - Nowhere at the whole world-wide-web.

BPMN 2.0 is not yet released in its final form […] hence the 'unfinished feel' perhaps. When the spec goes final

BPMN 2.0 appears to be quite backwards-compatible, and I would be OK even with former versions. - However, IDE tooling support has been quite unsatisfactory. - How could this change with a BPMN version upgrade?

Robert

Re: About modeling BPMN ... (implement 'userTask'; rant)

jbarrez — Thu, 27 May 2010 13:28:57 GMT

Yet I didn't find "columns" there, and not even expandable ones. - Where should one search for those?

What do you mean by columns? I see name, type, performer, etc on the right side.

You must be joking. That document is all about concepts, but not at all about implementation. For instance, the XML element "userTask" isn't mentioned or documented, at all. - Nowhere at the whole world-wide-web.

No I'm not joking. We're not just fantasizing on what every element in the spec would mean.
The BPMN 2.0 PDF http://www.omg.org/spec/BPMN/2.0/ (+400 pages) does cover every attribute, subelement, etc of the XSD. With text and examples. user Task event has its own section. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit with your vision of documentation.

BPMN 2.0 appears to be quite backwards-compatible, and I would be OK even with former versions. - However, IDE tooling support has been quite unsatisfactory. - How could this change with a BPMN version upgrade?

BPMN 2.0 is graphically backwards compatible. The serialisation format, ie the XSD, is brand new. Every 'BPMN-compliant' tool on the market so far has its own storage format. This is why this new version is so important.